Thanks for the great stream and discussion. You brought up two interesting aspects of thos film: feminism and the moral ambiguity of Cogburn.
One of the more baffling and irritating traits of feminism is their belief that women held NO agency in the past, until we were all enlightened by their wisdom. So they comb through old stories, pull out these female characters, and parade them about as a girl boss. If this story were written today then 100% Maddie would be some strong and fierce girl who'd show all the dumb men how it's actually done. In the end she'd probably start her own bounty hunter gang.
Second point is Cogburn and LeBouef (sp?) being in the Confederacy. At the time the book was written some nuance was still allowed re: the Civil War as opposed to now where we just grunt out "North good, South bad." The Raiders probably were vicious as described. But it was assumed at the time that the North also had irregulars who engaged in raids and massacres. All that is lost now with our dumb dichotomies about essentially everything. Allies good, Nazis bad; North good, South bad; etc.
I am fond of both versions of this movie, but think the newer one is the better of the two because of the casting of Mattie Ross. Kim Darby was a terrible actress , and too old for the part of a 14 year old. She is annoying but not in the way she is supposed to be. There is a scene in the new one with her mother that excuses any bossiness, her mother is totally incompetent and the girl is very aware that with the death of a not too bright father the fortunes of the whole family are on her shoulders. It was not an uncommon situation in the old west, and probably explains why she never marries more than the loss of the arm, women were at such a premium that a one armed woman could still find a husband. Cogburn and Le Boeuf also may have spoiled her for more ordinary men, an experience like hers would set the bar for a husband she could respect pretty high and she obviously wouldn’t want any other kind.
I was hoping you would mention the fact that in both movies, LeBoeuf makes a pass at her early on. It is more definite in the second. A 14 year old girl would have been marriageable then, and the relationship between them in both movies does hint at a possible romance which sadly never develops.
There is a book which the second movie followed more closely. I believe because she wanted revenge not justice she had to pay a price.
I have always been a student of “domestic history “ long before it deteriorated into women’s studies, a very different animal, so my head is filled with information about women’s real lives before they were turned into girl bosses. The new Creatures Great and Small has been turned into the Mrs. Hall Show. It isn’t about the vets, it isn’t about the animals, it is about their housekeeper, who was evidently a spy in WW1 and runs everyone’s life for them. A complete travesty.
Thank you for this, it was really great to listen to.
Great stream! Would love to here you’re guys take on No Country for Old Men, I know there’s buckets of review videos but it’s one of those classics that I pick up on something new every time I watch it.
Thanks for the great stream and discussion. You brought up two interesting aspects of thos film: feminism and the moral ambiguity of Cogburn.
One of the more baffling and irritating traits of feminism is their belief that women held NO agency in the past, until we were all enlightened by their wisdom. So they comb through old stories, pull out these female characters, and parade them about as a girl boss. If this story were written today then 100% Maddie would be some strong and fierce girl who'd show all the dumb men how it's actually done. In the end she'd probably start her own bounty hunter gang.
Second point is Cogburn and LeBouef (sp?) being in the Confederacy. At the time the book was written some nuance was still allowed re: the Civil War as opposed to now where we just grunt out "North good, South bad." The Raiders probably were vicious as described. But it was assumed at the time that the North also had irregulars who engaged in raids and massacres. All that is lost now with our dumb dichotomies about essentially everything. Allies good, Nazis bad; North good, South bad; etc.
I am fond of both versions of this movie, but think the newer one is the better of the two because of the casting of Mattie Ross. Kim Darby was a terrible actress , and too old for the part of a 14 year old. She is annoying but not in the way she is supposed to be. There is a scene in the new one with her mother that excuses any bossiness, her mother is totally incompetent and the girl is very aware that with the death of a not too bright father the fortunes of the whole family are on her shoulders. It was not an uncommon situation in the old west, and probably explains why she never marries more than the loss of the arm, women were at such a premium that a one armed woman could still find a husband. Cogburn and Le Boeuf also may have spoiled her for more ordinary men, an experience like hers would set the bar for a husband she could respect pretty high and she obviously wouldn’t want any other kind.
I was hoping you would mention the fact that in both movies, LeBoeuf makes a pass at her early on. It is more definite in the second. A 14 year old girl would have been marriageable then, and the relationship between them in both movies does hint at a possible romance which sadly never develops.
There is a book which the second movie followed more closely. I believe because she wanted revenge not justice she had to pay a price.
I have always been a student of “domestic history “ long before it deteriorated into women’s studies, a very different animal, so my head is filled with information about women’s real lives before they were turned into girl bosses. The new Creatures Great and Small has been turned into the Mrs. Hall Show. It isn’t about the vets, it isn’t about the animals, it is about their housekeeper, who was evidently a spy in WW1 and runs everyone’s life for them. A complete travesty.
Thank you for this, it was really great to listen to.
Great stream! Would love to here you’re guys take on No Country for Old Men, I know there’s buckets of review videos but it’s one of those classics that I pick up on something new every time I watch it.