I have serious doubts about a North Korean style state appearing in the West now. The multi-ethnic and multi-cultural makeup of modern western countries is too chaotic to control. Added to that, rapidly declining economies which will no longer be able to financially or technologically support a high tech secuirty apparatus. National power grids are already starting to fail.
With national health care systems already failing, how will they be able to fight off Monkey pox or Ebola pandemics or handle antibiotic drug resistance? They can't even provide decent dental care in the UK. Life expectancy is about to plummet.
Western militaries are now in gross decline. I don't see how they will be able to wage WW3 and maintain order at the same time.
In two or three years, with the police hamstrung by wokery, underfunded, and filled with incompetents, I doubt many western countries will be able to maintain law and order at all.
With on-time delivery and collaping supply chains, people will starve. Medicine will disappear from the shelves.
The appeal of governments is the offer of protection, secuirty and an orderly society. Modern western governments no longer appear interested in doing any of that. How will the elites fly on private jets if DEI destroys industry? Who will maintain their swimming pools and provide them with botox? It seems their ideology is so backward and untenable that it beggars belief.
I would like to add that the Soviet Union had vast resourances to draw upon, most western countries don't. North Korea is being propped up by Russia and China (for the moment), but would collapse completely without their support.
I think we are heading for civilizational collapse, anarchy, and a new dark age.
The silver lining here is that we get front-row seats to the decline & fall of civilization, although that feels like a pittance under the circumstances.
But really, this whole mess is unsustainable. Even back in the aughts/00's, I sensed that something was just "off" about my society. I couldn't put my finger on it then, but there was this vague feeling of malaise and decline that I couldn't shake off. Now it's blatant and undeniable for all but the most brainwashed.
I loved this book and movie. It truly transformed my worldview and showed me the extent these lunatics might go to suppress any dissident thought and action. The only aspect that I found unbelievable when I was younger was the Anti-Sex League of Women. It was a very libertine time during those years and it seemed other young people had no hangups. The girls if anything were more fixated on hooking up. Now, with MeToo and the rise of the regretful hags, I see how this movement would be used by the system to pit young men and women against each other and find each other suspect (just as the MGTOW and Femcel cat ladies are showing us now). Very bleak book but necessary.
With that softening of the language, and this isn't poetry per se, but I see more and more say partner when they ought to be saying wine or husband. That used to be the language of same sex couples. Spouse is another one. Guardian instead of parent.
As to the uselessness of 1984 in modern discourse. Could not disagree more. It created the genre so of course it is meme territory. LOTR created fantasy. These are essential acts. People will always associate wizards with Gandalf and we will always associate the surveillance state with big brother.
I think if I had to guess the most likely dystopian future for the west, it'd be a combination between 1984 and Brave New World. In fact that's very nearly what we have now. Much of what was foretold in these novels has come to pass: ubiquitous surveillance, newspeak, soma, the real time changing of headlines with no explanation, easy access to birth control, etc. Also something that I can only describe as the "untethering" from a time and place. No one really BELONGS anywhere now. I think this makes us easier to control.
Finally, I'd just like to mention that to me the most frightening dystopia is one that is dirty, squalid, kind of pathetic. Obviously 1984 is an example. I'd also mention the movie Elysium. These are scary to me because they seem more realistic. It does seem that as time passes, the system continues to break down and things just get generally worse.
re: untethering: That's one way to describe it, but I believe the best word is "deracinating", ie, Liberalism & Marxism are deracinating ideologies. As a word, it describes the phenomenon accurately, and also hints at the subtle violence involved.
A parallel, which was also discussed in the stream, is discernible between the three global blocs of 1984 and their endless wars on the one hand and the increasing confrontation between NATO and Russia/China and their respective affiliated countries on the other hand. Yet in 1984, those three blocs appear to be colluding directly or indirectly in that they do not want one side to get the upper hand but would rather have this state of affairs their particular "end of history". Likewise, in 1984 technology appears to be essentially frozen at the level of the 60s or 70s and in any case, general lack of resources appears to ensure that no significant new developments can happen (perhaps they are not desired in the first place).
Yet for our currrent day and age, the struggle between the blocs appears very real. They may not want to escalate with reckless abandon, but I do not think one side would deliberately pull its punches just to maintain a "balance of power" of sorts. Also, the demographic situation in particular in the Western societies, but also in the entirety of the at least semi-developed world globally, appears to be so dynamic (not in a good way, mind you), that any even mid-term stabilization of the current situation appears totally illusionary. Some sort of steady state may emerge eventually, but I feel that as to what it may look like everything is in the cards.
For me the great dystopian novel is the Island of Dr Moreau, which seems to defy a classic movie rendition, though I think the black and white version has stood the test of time.
Thank you for this, Morgoth. I wonder if you’d consider looking at the 1936 sci-fi film “Things To Come”, based on the H.G. Wells book, “The Shape Of Things To Come”. I find it fascinating, because it’s basically the world view of Klaus Schwab et al, revealed even before the outbreak of World War Two.
I have listened for these movie reviews for years. Issue with most North American contributors is the general laziness when comes to core material...or even just putting a shift in. Endeavor has formed several opinions on 1984 without (on his own admission) being bothered to properly read the books or analyse the film more than once. He has clearly skimmed both the book and the film...brushing up ONLY for this podcast..he has zero curiosity outside what is 'content' so frequently has NO clue about what u are talking about..this is not the first time..it is pure laziness
To be fair, he did have read some of Managerial Revolution, though he said it was boring.
I think in this case we differ in so much that Endeavour thinks of 1984 as a tired meme and I regard it as absolutely current and essential to analyse.
I disagree, I think it's what makes the collaboration between these guys so interesting. Morgoth has seen many of the movies multiple times, while often Endeavor has only seen them once (and recently). That gives an entirely different perspective.
Good stream, however...
I have serious doubts about a North Korean style state appearing in the West now. The multi-ethnic and multi-cultural makeup of modern western countries is too chaotic to control. Added to that, rapidly declining economies which will no longer be able to financially or technologically support a high tech secuirty apparatus. National power grids are already starting to fail.
With national health care systems already failing, how will they be able to fight off Monkey pox or Ebola pandemics or handle antibiotic drug resistance? They can't even provide decent dental care in the UK. Life expectancy is about to plummet.
Western militaries are now in gross decline. I don't see how they will be able to wage WW3 and maintain order at the same time.
In two or three years, with the police hamstrung by wokery, underfunded, and filled with incompetents, I doubt many western countries will be able to maintain law and order at all.
With on-time delivery and collaping supply chains, people will starve. Medicine will disappear from the shelves.
The appeal of governments is the offer of protection, secuirty and an orderly society. Modern western governments no longer appear interested in doing any of that. How will the elites fly on private jets if DEI destroys industry? Who will maintain their swimming pools and provide them with botox? It seems their ideology is so backward and untenable that it beggars belief.
I would like to add that the Soviet Union had vast resourances to draw upon, most western countries don't. North Korea is being propped up by Russia and China (for the moment), but would collapse completely without their support.
I think we are heading for civilizational collapse, anarchy, and a new dark age.
Or maybe WW3 and a nuclear war.
The silver lining here is that we get front-row seats to the decline & fall of civilization, although that feels like a pittance under the circumstances.
But really, this whole mess is unsustainable. Even back in the aughts/00's, I sensed that something was just "off" about my society. I couldn't put my finger on it then, but there was this vague feeling of malaise and decline that I couldn't shake off. Now it's blatant and undeniable for all but the most brainwashed.
I have hope for the future. Extreme circumstances have made what is really happening obvious to almost everyone.
The West is now experiencing a breakdown crisis.
I loved this book and movie. It truly transformed my worldview and showed me the extent these lunatics might go to suppress any dissident thought and action. The only aspect that I found unbelievable when I was younger was the Anti-Sex League of Women. It was a very libertine time during those years and it seemed other young people had no hangups. The girls if anything were more fixated on hooking up. Now, with MeToo and the rise of the regretful hags, I see how this movement would be used by the system to pit young men and women against each other and find each other suspect (just as the MGTOW and Femcel cat ladies are showing us now). Very bleak book but necessary.
With that softening of the language, and this isn't poetry per se, but I see more and more say partner when they ought to be saying wine or husband. That used to be the language of same sex couples. Spouse is another one. Guardian instead of parent.
As to the uselessness of 1984 in modern discourse. Could not disagree more. It created the genre so of course it is meme territory. LOTR created fantasy. These are essential acts. People will always associate wizards with Gandalf and we will always associate the surveillance state with big brother.
Wife
I think if I had to guess the most likely dystopian future for the west, it'd be a combination between 1984 and Brave New World. In fact that's very nearly what we have now. Much of what was foretold in these novels has come to pass: ubiquitous surveillance, newspeak, soma, the real time changing of headlines with no explanation, easy access to birth control, etc. Also something that I can only describe as the "untethering" from a time and place. No one really BELONGS anywhere now. I think this makes us easier to control.
Finally, I'd just like to mention that to me the most frightening dystopia is one that is dirty, squalid, kind of pathetic. Obviously 1984 is an example. I'd also mention the movie Elysium. These are scary to me because they seem more realistic. It does seem that as time passes, the system continues to break down and things just get generally worse.
re: untethering: That's one way to describe it, but I believe the best word is "deracinating", ie, Liberalism & Marxism are deracinating ideologies. As a word, it describes the phenomenon accurately, and also hints at the subtle violence involved.
A parallel, which was also discussed in the stream, is discernible between the three global blocs of 1984 and their endless wars on the one hand and the increasing confrontation between NATO and Russia/China and their respective affiliated countries on the other hand. Yet in 1984, those three blocs appear to be colluding directly or indirectly in that they do not want one side to get the upper hand but would rather have this state of affairs their particular "end of history". Likewise, in 1984 technology appears to be essentially frozen at the level of the 60s or 70s and in any case, general lack of resources appears to ensure that no significant new developments can happen (perhaps they are not desired in the first place).
Yet for our currrent day and age, the struggle between the blocs appears very real. They may not want to escalate with reckless abandon, but I do not think one side would deliberately pull its punches just to maintain a "balance of power" of sorts. Also, the demographic situation in particular in the Western societies, but also in the entirety of the at least semi-developed world globally, appears to be so dynamic (not in a good way, mind you), that any even mid-term stabilization of the current situation appears totally illusionary. Some sort of steady state may emerge eventually, but I feel that as to what it may look like everything is in the cards.
For me the great dystopian novel is the Island of Dr Moreau, which seems to defy a classic movie rendition, though I think the black and white version has stood the test of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6wWPwz4BAM
Thank you for this, Morgoth. I wonder if you’d consider looking at the 1936 sci-fi film “Things To Come”, based on the H.G. Wells book, “The Shape Of Things To Come”. I find it fascinating, because it’s basically the world view of Klaus Schwab et al, revealed even before the outbreak of World War Two.
I have listened for these movie reviews for years. Issue with most North American contributors is the general laziness when comes to core material...or even just putting a shift in. Endeavor has formed several opinions on 1984 without (on his own admission) being bothered to properly read the books or analyse the film more than once. He has clearly skimmed both the book and the film...brushing up ONLY for this podcast..he has zero curiosity outside what is 'content' so frequently has NO clue about what u are talking about..this is not the first time..it is pure laziness
To be fair, he did have read some of Managerial Revolution, though he said it was boring.
I think in this case we differ in so much that Endeavour thinks of 1984 as a tired meme and I regard it as absolutely current and essential to analyse.
I disagree, I think it's what makes the collaboration between these guys so interesting. Morgoth has seen many of the movies multiple times, while often Endeavor has only seen them once (and recently). That gives an entirely different perspective.